A reader wrote…
Nilesh ji,
A question came up while reading your Mahabharata book. If each Epoch of Arundhati is a wide phase of thousands of years where everyday Arundhati appears walking ahead of Vasistha;
Why would Vyasa tell Dhritarashtra a day before the War that “Arundhati has left her Husband behind”.
I feel that it makes sense only if this was a new phenomenon during that time. If at that time it had already been happening for thousands of years, this particular configuration of Arundhati-Vasistha would be too common and used-to to quote like this. What would be the use of quoting one day, something which was just as is, for thousands of years now? (Since 11091 BCE). Wouldn’t quoting something more dynamic/volatile be useful, something that helps tag the contemporary event/time more uniquely?
Or did this quotation in that particular situation meant to imply a certain horary section of the day … like saying “the Sun has set (its 6 PM).” ?? Of course I might be missing something basic, as my knowledge in Astronomy is poor. If you could clarify on this itching, its not letting me read further peacefully.
———–
My response…
Scientifically speaking….
What is the problem?
Mahabharata text states that Arundhati is walking ahead of Vasistha, at the time of the Mahabharata War
What makes ‘Arundhati walking ahead of Vasistha’ a problem?
This is a problem (or was thought to be problem) because the positions of Arundhati and Vasistha are essentially unchanged for hundreds and thousands of years. The current configuration is such that Vasistha walks ahead of Arundhati, whereas Mahabharata text states the OPPOSITE.
The Mahabharata researchers dealt with this problem in the following ways:
(1) Many researchers either downplayed this observation or ignored it hoping no one notices.
(2) Two researchers (Vaidya & Kane assumed that this was inserted by later writers)
(3) One researcher (R N Iyengar) combined part of this observation with another Mahabharata observation to come up with arbitrary, and unsatisfactory, explanation
(4) One researcher (P V Vartak) believed in factual nature of this observation, but could not test it to validate
(5) One researcher (N N Oak) showed that this was indeed the case from 11091 BCE through 4508 BCE.
Conclusion: Mahabharata War occurred sometime during the Epoch of Arundhati (11091 BCE – 4508 BCE).
So I solved the problem. In a scientific jargon, it would not have mattered how long this phenomenon was occurring. It would also not matter by how much distance/separation, Arundhati was ahead of Vasistha.
So before we get into additional exploration and explanations, it is important to realize that this discovery is a great breakthrough. It is revolutionary in its implications and various objections people have raised have no implication whatsoever on the ‘scientific’ nature of this discovery.
If Newton had discovered this and if people had put the above questions to him, he would have simply answered, “Hypothesis non Fingo” ( in layperson’s language – I don’t know).
The discoverer is not required to answer these questions. One may claim that these concerns are real and they may be. But these new problems are in fact the result of the revolutionary discovery of ‘Epoch of Arundhati ‘(11091 BCE – 4508 BCE).
One must understand this and then, and only then, one can begin to explore answers to the new questions raised.
————–
Essentially, reader is asking…
(1) If the phenomenon (of Arundhati ahead of Vasistha was occurring since 11091 BCE, what was such a big deal for Vyasa to mention in on 15 October 5561 BCE, one day before the first day of the Mahabharata War?
(2) In effect we are asking why Vyasa mentioned a phenomenon on the eve of the Mahabharata War, which otherwise was occurring for some 6000 years leading to the day of the Mahabharata War.
—————–
Short digression
In ‘The Poverty of Historicism’, Sir Karl Popper asks us to discard the tool of ‘psychology’ in researching any historical narrative. That is not to say that we can not speculate. Rather the point is if one is not careful, one will generate much metaphysical discussion but without any conclusion.
In short, history as documented can tells us something about ‘What’ (question phrased with ‘what’) and by luck, it may tell us something about ‘When’. It does not tell us anything about ‘Why’, but we can always draw inferences on what is being said.
————
Back to the discussion..
The phenomenon of Arundhati walking ahead of Vasistha was due to change in the position of the point of North Celestial pole as shown in the figure below
The point of North celestial pole was placed in such a way that Arundhati would have appeared to walk ahead of Vasistha anytime during 11091 BCE through 4508 BCE.
Why suddenly it was such a big deal, that it was worth mentioning in 5561 BCE.
The answer is because a big destructive war was going to happen, many were trying their best to stop it. Vyasa was making a last min attempt and in describing evil omens (as a last min effort to see if he could influence Dhritarashtra in any way) he mentions various inauspicious omens. This list includes numerous astronomy observations of that time (30 of them by my count) and among these 30, he mentions this one observation of Arundhati walking ahead of Vasistha.
Is this a unique instance within Mahabharata where Vyasa is making a list of inauspicious omen? Not at all, on the contrary, such lists of evil omens appear anytime a disaster is anticipated. Karna mentions them during his conversation with Krishna, before the War and Vyasa mentions them before and during the dual between Bhima and Duryodhan. These omens included astronomy observations. There are too many instances to mention.
In fact same thing can be said of Ramayana (These are fresh on my mind and thus easy to list)
(1) Scheduled coronation of Rama (When instead he ended up leaving for the forest)
(2) Rama-Khara fight
(3) Ravana taking away Sita from Panchavati
(4) Vali-Vadha
(5) Rama and Vanara army leaving from Kishkindha (in this case, good omens)
(6) Ravana-Vadha
————-
Another reason we can speculate is that while Arundhati indeed began walking ahead of Vasistha as early as 11091 BCE, the separation between them was very small and remained so for many hundreds and thousands of years, as shown in the figure below.
As can be seen from the figure, The separation reached its maximum (Arundhati ahead of Vasistha) around the time of Mahabharata War (5561 BCE), in fact sometime before 5561 BCE.
Naked eye resolution is about 1 arc-min. The maximum separation (with Arundhati ahead of Vasistha) between Arundhati and Vasistha were around 500 arc-sec, which is about 8 arc-min.
Thus one can make a case that while Arundhati began walking ahead of Vasistha as early as 11091 BCE, only around the time of the Mahabharata War (5561 BCE) it would have become apparent to someone observing them (Arundhati and Vasistha) with naked eye.
Nilesh Nilkanth Oak 
Arundhati had been very close to Vasishtha for a long period and her being just ahead of Vasishtha was noticeable only recently, that too to a keen observer like Vyasa. It is therefore legitimate that he mentions it. Why a bad omen? Cant say.
Pingback: Response to Shri Shrikant Talageri – Part 6 | Nilesh Nilkanth Oak
Hello Nileshrao:
How does this square with Tilak’s dating of the Rig Veda around 4500 BCE?
Mayuresh Kelkar
Great question. For most part the references Tilak employed were from secondary literature related to Rigveda – broadly called ‘Veda-shakha Pravachan’. The timing of Veda-shakha Pravachan indeed comes to 5000 BCE through 2000 BCE (post- Mahabharata).
Please watch.
and also
There are more videos by myself and Shri Mrugendra Vinod that you should watch, but this will provide a head start.
Warm regards,
NIlesh Oak
PS: Feel free to post additional questions , after going through these videos + my books.
“Naked eye resolution is about 1 arc-min. The maximum separation (with Arundhati ahead of Vasistha) between Arundhati and Vasistha were around 500 arc-sec, which is about 8 arc-min.” Since the naked eye resolution is about 1 arc-min, I am guessing that around 8000-9000 BC is when this phenomenon would have been observed. Am I correct?
Also, you mention in your book that you didn’t check all the plausible dates but went ahead with P.V. Vartak’s suggestion. So there may be another date which may meet all the criterion.
Since the separation of 500 arc-sec existed in 5561 BCE, the phenomenon could be observed in 5561 BCE.
The maximum separation was around 6000 BCE.
Where do I mention that I did not check all the plausible dates?
In fact, I did check all the plausible dates, however, as a man of Dharma (and thus of science, logic, etc.), I remain open to the possibility that if someone else comes up with another date (within the Epoch of Arundhati and (now) within the Epoch of Bhishma Nirvana) that provides a better corroboration than what 5561 BCE achieves, it will be exciting, in which case, we should accept that better claim. This is true for everything in science (e.g., Einstein’s theory) and my claim is not an exception.
I am asserting that there is no other date but 5561 BCE that does a phenomenal job of corroborating multidisciplinary evidence of Mahabharata text (12+ disciplines of science). However, I am willing to be wrong (this does not mean I am wrong).
However, anyone claiming to have a better claim for the year of Mahabharata war has an onus to show why and how that claim is better in comparison to 5561 BCE, as it relates to the rich internal evidence of the Mahabharata text.
Dear Shri Nilesh Oak,
Hope you are aware that Dr. Vartakji passed away recently. He was a teacher of my wife and my wife took me to his home quite some years ago. He was a great scholar. Credit goes to him for his pioneering attempts in finding the dates of the Mahabharata and Ramayana events. Let the Lord give him peace. I could not agree with his date of Mahabharata, but it appeared to me that he was almost at the point of finding the true date of the Ramayana events, though he seemed to be off by about one thousand years.
Now coming to your work I was wondering why you have not given the distances of Arundhati and Vashishtha from the Earth. It does appear relevant to your approach. Why not give those figures, which you have considered for your work.
Best wishes in your search for the truths of the past history of India.
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
I have not given their distances from the Earth because they are not relevant. If you think they are relevant, feel free to research and produce your original works. After all, you have published 32+ peer-reviewed papers. If I find merit in your work, I will be happy to publish them on my blog.
All the best.
Dear Mr. Oak,
After the zero angle of separation between Arundhati and Vashistha in 11091 BCE, Arundhati gradually started going ahead of Vasistha and she remained ahead till around 8000 BCE, but after that she started gradually receding and by the time of 4805 BCE, the angular separation of Arundhati and Vashistha became nil or zero. What, according to you, is the cause of this gradual reversal of angular separation from around 8000 BCE to 4805 BCE.
Secondly how will you interpret the gradual increase in angular separation of Arundhati and Vasistha after 4805 BCE. Hope I am not putting you in a difficult situation. by asking these two questions
Looking forward to hearing from you,
SKB
The explanation is simple, yet it requires a solid comprehension of astronomy. I suggest you either read a decent book on astronomy or contact an astronomy professor near you.
Thank you for your question.
Warm regards,
Nilesh Oak
Dear Shri Niesh oak,
It appears to me that, with the change of direction after 8000 BCE, Arundhati found herself behind Vashistha and she started chasing Vashistha, and finally catched up with him in 4805 BCE.
You can try this experiment yourself. Leave your home with your wife for an evening walk and let her be ahead of you (for safety consideration) and after walking for a distance you decide to return home and your wife will find herself behind you and she will try to chase you and then catch up with you. It will be interesting to receive your comments on what Arundhati did in such a situation, as mentioned above.
Eagerly looking forward to hearing from you and thanking you.
S.K.Bhattacharjya
I decided to carry out this experiment. We went on a 45 min walk and I explained your experiment to her and she told me to not listen to foolish individuals such as yourself. I tried to convince her about your credentials – your degrees, your Ph.D., the prestigious sounding place you worked for many years, your track records of 32+ peer-reviewed journal papers. In response, she narrated me stories of numerous other PhDs with multiple peers reviewed papers to their credit and much more foolish in their thoughts than what your experiments might have suggested.
She asked me to not approve any of your posts unless they are as funny or ridiculous as your recent posts. She asked me to entertain you for a while and then block you.
The experiment is complete. I will listen to my Arundhati.
Warm regards,
Nilesh Oak
Dear Mr. Oak.
Have moral courage to reply to my technical question. I myself married in Maharashtra and I know that the Maharastrian girls/ladies are very intelligent and very bold. So don’t give the excuse of your wife to evade answering to my question. Beware, if you do such tomfoolery in your wife’s name, she may even desert you. Don’t think her less that the Jhansiki Rani.
I wish the Lord would give you the moral courage to admit that you made the serious mistake and you tried to fool the Indians, with an absurd date for the Mahabharata war.
Sincerely,
SunilK. Bhattacharjya
Dear Dr. Bhattacharjya,
I have check Mr. Oak’s findings. He is right about the fact that Arundhati lead Vasistha from 10,248 BC to 4636 BC. Note that years have slightly changed because Mr. Oak calculated with an older ephemeris which could only predict well until 3000 BC. The years I have shared are based on DE 431 released by NASA and goes upto 1300 BC. So the years are not going to change much any more. In the period above mention, the right ascension value of Arundhati is smaller that right ascension value of Vasistha. In other words, Arundhati crossed the meridian ahead of Vasistha. I don’t understand what do you mean by angle.
Thank you. And special thanks for recalculating the limits with the latest data.
Is it possible to share the calculations (excel, etc.?) that you performed?
Thank you, again.
Nilesh
What stops you from writing a book where you can write whatever you want to write about my research, or as you have done until now- specifically personal slander! At least, you may able to provide some entertainment and many will come to know of your true capabilities.
All the best.
You are doing this nonsense since 2011. Why stop now?
All one has to do is increase the temperature a little, and trolls can not hide their ‘trolling’ behavior!
It is fun to watch ‘trolls’ respond!
Dear Shri Sidhharth Chabra,
Yes, I was indicating about the zero points of 10,248 BCE to 4636 BCE, in my mails to the Hindu Civilization group and in Jayasreeji’s blog and I also mentioned that it does not matter much in our discussions.
I thank Shri Nilesh Oak for suggesting that I should write a book on the date of the Mahabharata war. Yes, but to my knowledge Dr. Jayasree Saranathan is almost finishing her book on this and why not have a look at her book first. I read long ago a book where a scholar from Maharashtra named many scholars, who found the 32nd century BCE date for the Mahabharata war.
I wonder why Shri Oak did not say a word about the very high angular separation in 32nd century BCE, compared to a much smaller angular separation in 5561 BCE. You can also address this issue, which has, so far, not been though of, by Shri Oak. Mind that the CNP in the 32nd century BCE was on the other side of the A-V-plane intersecting the precessional circle, as compared to the CNP in 5561 BCE, and you may know what difference this makes.
Shri Oak referred to 2011. Yes, that was the year when he sent his book to me for my views and I sent the feedback. If Shri oak so desires I can make public, the correspondence between us in 2011.
Sincerely,
SunilK Bhattacharjya
Dear Dr. Sunil Bhattacharjya,
If you so desire, feel free to make our correspondence public. It will be highly educational and instructive to the masses. I have also saved it.
Warm regards,
Nilesh Oak
Dear Nilesh Oak,
It is you who talked about the 2011 correspondence. I have told you in 2011 itself, about the serious lies in your book. I told you that Bhishma slept in the bed of arrows for 58 nights and I also showed you the break up, according to the Mahabharata. In that 2011 correspondence you will see that I also showed you how Balaram made the 42 days trip as you were puzzled by Balarama leaving in Pushya and returning in Shravana. Then you wrote to me that you already published your book and you can’t do anything. Let the people know that I already tried to help you to correct your mistakes, but you have been proud and arrogant. . Germans say “Lügen haben kurze Beine”, which means “Lies have short legs”. It was inevitable that you have to fall and that is your own making.
Sincerely,
SunilK Bhattacharjya
Dear Dr. S B
Since you have found the correct date and explanations for the MBH evidence, why don’t you go ahead and do whatever it pleases you? You may write books, blogs, make videos, give presentations, make a film or documentary about your original work and if you may choose, can do all of these in showing why 5561 BCE is wrong.
Would it not serve the Dharmic cause of bringing the truth to the people? Your reputation of having a Ph.D., the fact you have many peer-reviewed publications (32, is it?) and the fact you worked for a prestigious organization such as BARC (or was it TIFR) should help you convey your point with academic and institutional authority, isn’t it?
I suggest you do that. Of course, if you are interested in only writing comments on my blog-site because no one else is willing to listen to you, you are always welcome here. I am a passionate teacher and I can use the participation of all students, bright and dull, to turn it into a teachable point of view (TPOV) a term my colleague -NT – coined and employed at our executive learning center where I taught for 13+ years.
BTW, your campaign to talk about my research work in a negative light is working. Few famous names in the Indic space called me to know more about you. I did share your accomplishments with them including our (yours and mine) long interaction (since 2011) with them. Please continue your work that you feel so passionate about.
Warm regards,
Nilesh Oak
Dear Mr. Bhattacharjya,
You keep mentioning angle of separation. However, you haven’t defined that angle. Mr. Oak uses scientific term – Right Ascension for the two stars. His findings can be almost replicated. I will be happy to see Jayesree’s analysis and her date. 32nd century dates have lot of problems. Note that, I don’t support Mr. Oak’s date 5561 BC as the Mahabharata, however, I appreciate his hard work and faith in the Mahabharata. Due to his faith, the Lord blessed him with the intelligence to find a clear explanation of Arundhati-Vasistha relationship.
Dear Nileshji,
I have done all the work necessary for the dating. However, as I told you sometime back that Smt Jayasree Saranathanji wrote in her blog that she has almost completed her work on the dating of the Mahabharata, it is imperative that I look at her work.
Best,
skb
Dear Mr. Chabra,
The diurnal motion of Arundhati and Vashistha, which you and Nilesh Oak are looking at, is due to the Earth’s rotation. How do you expect that the diurnal motion of these two stars to be affected by the precessional motion of the Earth, to reflect on Arundhati’s going ahead of or trailing after Vashistha?
Secondly, why are you silent on the situation after 4805 BCE?
I see that you you think the dating of the Mahabharata war to be problematic, but it does not appear so to me. Which are the problems, are you talking about?
Please write to me at Sidharth.Chhabra@gmail.com and I can explain.
Buyers Beware!
This individual, Dr. S B, has wasted my time and wasted time of numerous individuals, beyond description. I am not discouraging you from engaging with him. I am only sharing my experience. In no time, he will become incoherent, will start putting his thoughts in your mouth. If you are doing it to practice your argumentation skills or to entertain yourself, no harm in interacting. I did interact with him in 2011 and let the interaction proceed. It had its limited value, at least at that time.
Warm regards,
Nilesh Oak
Dear Siddharthji,
You can surely inform us openly about the problems you have in dating of the Mahabharata war and Nileshji will not oppose that. In fact Nileshji also may like to contribute.
Nileshji is unhappy as I don’t support the 5561 BCE date of Mahabharata war, claimed by Dr. Vartak. I knew Dr. Vartak personally and also met him. He was nice gentlemen and I hoped that Dr. Vartak would look at his date once again after the astronomical softwares became available. Sadly he did not and he passed away recently.
Best wishes
SKB
Friends,
see below, how Nilesh Oak asserts in his rants without substantiating
skb
Buyers Beware!
This individual, Dr. S B, has wasted my time and wasted time of numerous individuals, beyond description. I am not discouraging you from engaging with him. I am only sharing my experience. In no time, he will become incoherent, will start putting his thoughts in your mouth. If you are doing it to practice your argumentation skills or to entertain yourself, no harm in interacting. I did interact with him in 2011 and let the interaction proceed. It had its limited value, at least at that time.
Warm regards,
Nilesh Oak
Friends,
Nilesh Oak is getting mad at me and he is using bad language to hit me, because I pointed out that in the period from 11091 BCE to 4805 BCE, it was Vasistha who was ahead of Arundhati. This means that Nilesh Oak’s date of 5561 BCE for the Mahabharata war is absolutely wrong.
Arundhati was ahead of Vashistha only after 4805 BCE and that means the date of Mahabharata found in the 32nd century BCE is correct.
Best wishes,
SunilK Bhattacharjya
Dear Sunil ji,
I am sorry but I didn’t write earlier that I confirmed the Right Ascension values for those stars. You last post sound like you didn’t understand. What would help to convince you? I can tell you a simple test. Download DE 431 and Stellarium and check for yourself.
Dear Siddharthji,
First and foremost you have to understand what causes the RA of Arundhati to be less than the RA of Vasistha at some time and then at other times causes RA of Vasistha to be less than the RA of Arundhati, and this cycle goes on.
Secondly, also try to understand that these changes did not occur overnight and the ancient sages did sky-watching for centuries, generation after generation, to collect these cumulative informations.
Thirdly, you have also to understand why after the Mahabharata war the Saptarshis ( which includes Vasistha and Arundhati) were reported to have moved from one naksatra to another, in the reverse direction. By reverse direction I mean moving from Ashwini to Revati and not from Ashwini to Bharani. Try to understand this.
Just knowing the present-day convention that one with lower RA goes ahead of another of higher RA, may not help you to understand what Vedavyasa said.
Fourthly, you can ask your friend Nilesh oak to find the 13-day eclipse pair in 5561 BCE. This will be the acid-test for Nilesh Oak’s proposal of 5561 BCE as the date of the Mahabharata war.
Dear Sidharth Ji
Would you kindly provide me the following, per latest and greatest (DE 431)
(1) The smallest separation distance between the Sun and the moon on 16 October 5561 BCE (The first day of the Mahabharata War, per my (& Vartak) claim)
(2) Eclipse details or eclipselike details (separation angle between Earth’s shadow and the moon) on 30 October 5561 BCE (Full moon day)
(3) The smallest separation distance between the Sun and the moon on ~15 days after 30 October 5561 BCE, Amavasya (~13/14 Nov 5561 BCE)
Any additional information related to these 3 events that you can gather from DE431.
Appreciate your help,
Nilesh
Dear Sri Nilesh Oak,
I understand that you have made the mistake of proposing 5561 BCE as the date of Mahabharata War because you did not know about the clockwise movement of Arundhati and Vasistha, which is due to the effect of Precession of the earth. It is quite possible that your friends like Mr. Phadnis were also not aware of the effect of the Precession on the apparent motion of Arundhati and Vasistha. Under the circumstances, I feel It will be better for you to admit honestly your mistake publicly and the people will pardon you.
Best wishes
SunilK Bhattacharjya
Who is holding me guilty?
Let me elaborate it to some extent. Please read my mail, where I said that you have made the mistake of supporting the 5561 BCE date of Mahabharata War, proposed by Late Dr. P.V.Vartak, because you did not know about the role of the extremely slow apparent movement of Arundhati and Vasistha, in the direction opposite to the precessional movement of the Earth. which caused the apparent separation of Arundhati and Vasistha, where Arundhati”s going ahead of Vasistha became noticeable to naked eye only about a millennium after after 4636 BCE.
Dear. Dr. S Bhattacharjya,
Please elaborate to the full extent. This is indeed entertaining and in a way, educational. You indeed represent a significant portion of so-called educated, Ph.D. holding community of India which are and were wasting many valuable resources of India. Of course, your behavior is also a blot to the others who worked day and night for the glorification of India, against all odds.
Thank you for making the inner mind of fake Indic intellectuals available to posterity.
Warm regards,
Nilesh Oak
Dear Mr. Oak,
Why be vague and escapist? Give concrete proofs if there is any lapse on my part. I am not egoist like you and I have no interest in earning money by publishing books like you only to fool people. If you can why don’t you give reason why and how Arundhalti separate from Vasistha at different times. Just giving the statement that the RAs of these two stars are different at different times does not explain how and why the RA figures become become different.
Please share the links to your publications. I am very curious to read them. Thanks.
Which publication you mean, name it.
List all of them, if you like.
My goal is to make you write more so that people get to see your real personality. Otherwise, I have no interest in you or your publications, whatsoever.
Hi Nilesh:
This is not related to astronomy but thought I would bring this paper by John Koch out of University of Wales to your attention through this blog.
https://www.academia.edu/38336128/Formation_of_the_Indo-European_branches_in_the_light_of_the_Archaeogenetic_Revolution?auto=download
It contains the usual half truth and some outright misinformation about the steppe hypotheses. Starting around page 11. Koch thinks Rakhigari sample was a male!
Kindly forward to the appropriate experts for a rebuttal.
Thank you.
Mayuresh Kelkar
Thank you.
Dear Mr. Nilesh Oak,
People know that I speak the truth and only the truth. In 2011 when you sent your book to me for comments I had the best interest of yours in mind and I wrote to you at that time itself that from Bhishma’s own statement we know that Bhishma slept in the bed of arrows for 58 nights. Bhishma fell in the war in the first half of the Margashisrsha month and at the end of the 58 nights on the bed of arrows he died in the first half of the Magha month. The Hindus have been observing the Bhishmastami in the month of Magha from the ancient times. I tried to help you but you were bent on digging your own grave by sticking to your imaginative 92 days of Bhishma sleeping on the bed of arrrows.
That Arundhati and Vasistha appears to move ( albeit extremely slowly) in the direction opposite to that of the direction of the Earth’s precessional movement is known to the scholars, who know about the Saptarshi movement . Even a small school boy will understand this, if one explains this to him that it is like the trees appearing to go behind when one goes forward in a motorized vehicle. But it is a pity that this is beyond your understanding . Arundhati appeared to go ahead of Vasistha before the Mahabharata war in the 32nd century BCE and this became visible to the naked eye at that time.
Probably I need not have to write a book on the date of Mahabharata, as the proposed book of Smt. Jayasreeji is going to be announced soon.
Sincerely
SKB
You should write a book on Mahabharata. Smt Jayasreeji’s book is also much needed. Remember: “More the merrier”.
If you write the book on Mahabharata, you will able to explain your thoughts in details and all who are interested in Mahabharata would benefit.
My best wishes to you in your endeavors.
Dear Mr,. Oak,
Thank you.
Yesterday I came to know that Mrs. Jayasree Saranathan’s book (huge one with 444 pages) is out and is available from Amazon at :
I have not seen this book yet. If and when you read it you can tell me how you find it. If you still want me to write a book on the date of the Mahabharata war, you can tell me what essential matters, according to you, had not been covered by Jayasreeji.
Sincerely,
SKB
The name of the book is
MYTH OF ‘THE EPOCH OF ARUNDHATI’ OF NILESH NILKANTH OAK Kindle Edition
by Jayasree Saranathan (Author)
The url is :
Thanks, Dr. Sunil Bhattacharjya JI.
I will read her book when I receive my own copy autographed by the author. Until then, I will work on important things.
Feel free to share words of wisdom from her book, if you choose to do it. I am confident they will be entertaining, enlightening and educational.
Warm regards,
Nilesh Oak
I don’t care if you write a book or not. If you fill like writing, you may write it, otherwise NOT. You can write whatever you want to write and those who are interested in it may read it.
I find comedic relief interacting with a troll like you. I do entertain trolls on my own terms. Naturally, the same rules apply here.
I don’t care if you write a book or not. If you fill like writing, you may write it, otherwise NOT. You can write whatever you want to write and those who are interested in it may read it.
I find comedic relief interacting with a troll like you. I do entertain trolls on my own terms. Naturally, the same rules apply here.
Thank you Mr. Oak. I too find amusing your attacking letters using the words like trolling etc. That shows you have lost your peace of mind, as people are opposing your date of 5561 BCE for the Mahabharata war.
While I publicized that the Arundhati’s apparent going ahead of Vasistha has astronomical explanation and it supported the 32nd century BCE and not 56th century BCE, Jayasree Saranathanji seems to have an alternative non-astronomical explanation for Arundhati’s going ahead of Vasistha. As regards reading her book, I too will certainly read that if she sends me a copy for my comments, and also send my comments to her , like I sent my comments to you when you sent a copy of your first book to me for comments.
Sincerely,
SKB
Thanks for negating what you wrote earlier, You wrote as follows:
You should write a book on Mahabharata. Smt Jayasreeji’s book is also much needed. Remember: “More the merrier”.
If you write the book on Mahabharata, you will able to explain your thoughts in details and all who are interested in Mahabharata would benefit.
My best wishes to you in your endeavo
Hello Nileshji,
Ms. Jayasree Saranathan, in her blog, link given below, she claimed that she has challenged your AV Theory and you havn’t replied. In fact she published a free ebook claiming debunking of your claim. second link is that of her book.
Blog:
http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2018/01/challenging-nilesh-oaks-dates-of.html
Book:
https://www.academia.edu/44757153/Myth_of_The_Epoch_of_Arundhati_of_Nilesh_Nilkanth_Oak
Just curious, have you replied to Ms. Jayasree Saranathan ?
Would love to hear regarding your take on it.
Regards,
Girish Bene
I respond to all critiques of my works that are worthy of responding. She has not even made a dent with utter foolishness that she has spouted in her book. Please read my books and her book in a hurry. Post your own take after reading both. Thank you.
Hello Nileshji,
I recently stumbled on to your your tube lectures on the dating of Mahabharata and Ramayana . It has been fascinating and I applaud you and others before you who took up this tedious task on behalf of the millions of Hindus around the world . We are tired of the west owning the narrative on the History of India .
While reading this blog I realized that the activity of dating the Mahabharata has become as violent as the war itself 🙂 . It interesting that Dr Saranathan had to use your name on the title of her book 🙂 .
One question – Does any year for the Mahabharata war from 3200 to 5261 BCE relegate the Aryan Invasion/migration theory to the dustbin of history ?
Regards,
Raj Hegde
Namaskar.
Thank you for your comment.
Yes, any year from 3200 BCE through 5561 BCE relegates AIT to the dustbin of history. Unfortunately, anything other than 5561 BCE is as fake as AIT. I do not say this because my research happens to lead to 5561 BCE.
Rest, I leave it to scientific acumen, logical reasoning, Vyapti-Jnana, and strategic acumen of Indians.
Warm regards,
Nilesh Oak
Dear Nilesh Oak,
The link pdf by Manish Pandit has this info and research done .
https://www.academia.edu/44792423/3067BCE_Dissection_of_Theories_on_The_Mahabharata?email_work_card=view-paper
Page 115 has the observation done on AV Observation . Please can you comment or provide inputs on the same below.
The verse, by Vyasa, in consideration is verse 31 of Chapter 2 of Bhisma Parva. This verse has several interpretations, however one meaning which is taken by a few authors, talks of Arundhati walking ahead of Vasistha before the Mahabharata war. This verse is clearly belonging to the same time and space where Vyasa meets Dhritarashtra and that is BEFORE THE WAR to inform him of the various omens noted. Two authors, namely Vartak and now Oak, have made use of this verse to formulate a war theory where it is purported that Arundhati/ Alcor walks ahead of Vasistha/ Mizar (when considered from the position of the NCP) for a period of 5500 years from 11,091 BCE to 4,500BCE, thereby pushing the Mahabharata war way beyond the stringent 3800BCE upper limit imposed by Bhisma Moksha in Magha masa at S8 (Shukla Astami) as shown earlier. This has then been claimed to be an Epoch, namely the Epoch of Arundhati (11000 BCE to 4508 BCE) by the said authors. My answer is that there can be no Epoch if the event of Arundhati walking ahead of Vasistha as described by those authors occurs every year OUTSIDE the said Epoch. Here is the claim:
3067BCE: Dissection Of Theories on the Mahabharata: Dr Manish Pandit
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The so called claim of the “Epoch of Arundhati Vasistha” and a slide from my earlier book which illustrates the problem: Before we come to the occurrence of the AV observation outside the said Epoch, lets ask the first basic question with the AV observation: Is it a temporary/ transient observation or long running? Is it an omen/ Nimitta ie. something happening which is temporary and out of the ordinary or something long running?
Lets answer this first question methodically by looking at the context of the verses. I have earlier said in my previous work that the verses leading up to verse 31 of chapter 2 of Bhisma Parva are temporary in nature. Lets take a quick glance at those verses.
Temporary Nature of the AV verses:
Verse 26: The murtis of the deities in the temples, tremble, laugh, vomit blood from their mouth and then sweat profusely and fall down. Verse 27: A sound of drumming is heard but nobody is playing the drums, the chariots start moving despite having no animals yoked to them.
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Verse 28: The kokilas, woodpeckers, parrots, swans and peacocks utter cruel cries. Verse 29: Soldiers ride on the back of their horses with their armour and weapons. Swarms of locusts are seen at or just before sunrise. Verse 30: All four cardinal directions were burning along with both twilights and it was raining blood and bones.
To therefore answer the question which I have posed earlier:
The legitimate and most logical inference which can be made from these verses is that they are describing omens which are merely temporary in nature. None of these verses describe phenomena which last more than 6 months. Most of them are in fact fleeting in nature. Thus the inference which can most definitely NOT be drawn is that the verses leading up to the Arundhati Vasistha observation are pointing to a phenomenon which runs for 100’s or 1000’s of years. It would be illogical for any astronomer to make that sort of inference. This is the first problem which assails any war theory which attempts to draw a conclusion of this sort. (as the 5561BCE astronomers have tried to do).
The next question to ask
is whether Vyasa defines (or quantifies) the Arundhati Vasistha observation as a Nimitta or an omen (ie. something
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which is an extraordinary observation) rather than something which is occurring for 1000’s of years. Let us look at verse 16, which precedes the verses of this chapter already described above. As we can see from the verse above, Vyasa quantifies and defines the AV shloka as one amongst many omens/ Nimittas, hence the answer to our next question is clear:
Vyasa defines (or quantifies) the Arundhati Vasistha observation as a Nimitta or an omen
(ie. something which is an extraordinary observation) and not something which is occurring for 1000’s of years.
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The non existent “Epoch of Arundhati” in reality:
The next problem is that the AV observation is not limited to any kind of Epoch. In fact, it is found to occur every August in the 3K BCE timeframe. In fact, so common is this observation in the August time frame that it occurs every year in that month right upto around 1000BCE. Since this phenomenon of Arundhati walking ahead of Vasistha (in relation to the NCP) is occurring every year outside that time frame of 11,000 to 4508BCE, the only reasonable inference which can be made is that there is no Epoch. This is because, an Epoch implies that the AV observation has exclusivity to within a particular time frame and we have just proved that statement to be baseless as that event occurs every year outside that Epoch.
The next question to ask is when did the AV Observation occur? Before, during or after the war?
Vyasa meets Dhritarashtra before the war. The references of Bhisma Parva from chapter 2 which include the Arundhati Vasistha observation are also narrated by Vyasa and are definitely describing the omens observed by him before the war. Thus the Arundhati Vasistha observation is not being described By Vyasa Muni as occurring during the war or after it specifically, but instead it occurs only before the war. Thus August time frame for the Arundhati Vasistha observation as occurs every year in the 3K BCE time frame is perfectly in keeping with the facts which have been presented so far. Remember that we have to take the life span of humans into account here and what exactly the verses show. We are also aware that Bhisma after the war is over talks of Arundhati as a pativrata and so does Kunti in the years much prior to the war.
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Therefore we are now in a situation where there is a claim (that the Mahabharata war can only take place in the time interval of 11091BCE to 4500BCE (Vartak and Oak) and a counter claim by me based on the verses preceding the AV observation and those coming after it along with the presence of Bhisma Nirvana at Magha Shukla Asthami, that there is no possibility of the Mahabharata war ever occurring in the time frame beyond 3800BCE (and more realistically 3200BCE). However, the average lay person has no definite way of deciding which of the two claims is true and which is false. Let us dissect the interpretation made by these authors and see if the conclusions drawn by them are correct or not. Here are the perfectly valid criticisms of the situation in which the AV observation as used by the 5561BCE war theory finds itself in. 1.Ignoring the word Nimitta (or omen) which is present in verse 16 of the same chapter 2 of Bhisma Parva. This one point is not noted by both Vartak and others in their enrolment of this verse is the use by Vyasa of the word Nimitta which occurs in verse 16. 2.Ignoring the context of the verses before and after the AV observation which point to an omen, that is either a transient phenomenon or one which lasts at most for just a few months and definitely not for 100’s or 1000’s of years. 3.Ignoring the fact that the observation occurs every year in August before the war (and outside the so called Epoch)
What did you understand out of all the write up you have quoted?
Isn’t Vashishta and Arundathi both part of a binary star system? That means they periodically are ahead of each other at intervals. We also need to consider the angle of the observer from Ramayana location vs the North Pole location. Please research this info to validate the assertions in the above article. The hint would be the star Algol and the binary system.